{"id":"sn12.18","title":"With Timbaruka","languageCodes":["en","pi"],"languageNotes":{"en":"Bhikkhu Sujato · CC0","pi":"Mahāsaṅgīti edition · SuttaCentral"},"chapters":[{"id":"sn12.18","title":"With Timbaruka","units":[{"id":"sn12.18:0","sourceIds":["sn12.18:0.1","sn12.18:0.2","sn12.18:0.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.18\n2. Āhāravagga\nTimbarukasutta","en":"Linked Discourses 12.18\n2. Fuel\nWith Timbaruka"}},{"id":"sn12.18:1","sourceIds":["sn12.18:1.1","sn12.18:1.2","sn12.18:1.3"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Sāvatthiyaṁ viharati.\nAtha kho timbaruko paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi.\nSammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:","en":"At Sāvatthī.\nThen the wanderer Timbaruka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him.\nWhen the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:"}},{"id":"sn12.18:2","sourceIds":["sn12.18:2.1","sn12.18:2.2","sn12.18:2.3","sn12.18:2.4","sn12.18:2.5","sn12.18:2.6","sn12.18:2.7","sn12.18:2.8","sn12.18:2.9","sn12.18:2.10","sn12.18:2.11","sn12.18:2.12","sn12.18:2.13","sn12.18:2.14","sn12.18:2.15"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?\nMā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.\nKiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?\nMā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.\nKiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhanti?\nMā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.\nKiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhanti?\nMā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.\nKiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhanti?\nNa kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ;\natthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhanti.\nTena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatīti?\nNa khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi.\nJānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ;\npassāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan”ti.","en":"“Well, worthy Gotama, are pleasure and pain made by oneself?”\n“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.\n“Then are pleasure and pain made by another?”\n“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.\n“Well, are pleasure and pain made by both oneself and another?”\n“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.\n“Then do pleasure and pain arise anomalously, not made by oneself or another?”\n“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.\n“Well, is there no such thing as pleasure and pain?”\n“It’s not that there’s no such thing as pleasure and pain.\nPleasure and pain are real.”\n“Then does the worthy Gotama not know or see suffering?”\n“It’s not that I don’t know or see pleasure and pain.\nI do know pleasure and pain,\nI do see pleasure and pain.”"}},{"id":"sn12.18:3","sourceIds":["sn12.18:3.1","sn12.18:3.2","sn12.18:3.3","sn12.18:3.4","sn12.18:3.5","sn12.18:3.6","sn12.18:3.7","sn12.18:3.8","sn12.18:3.9","sn12.18:3.10","sn12.18:3.11"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.\n‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.\n‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.\n‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.\n‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ;\natthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi.\n‘Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi.\nJānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ;\npassāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi.\nĀcikkhatu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ.\nDesetu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhan”ti.","en":"“Worthy Gotama, when asked these questions, you say ‘not so’.\nYet you say that there is such a thing as pleasure and pain.\nAnd you say that you do know pleasure and pain,\nand you do see pleasure and pain.\nSir, explain pleasure and pain to me!\nTeach me about pleasure and pain!”"}},{"id":"sn12.18:4","sourceIds":["sn12.18:4.1","sn12.18:4.2","sn12.18:4.3","sn12.18:4.4","sn12.18:4.5","sn12.18:4.6","sn12.18:4.7","sn12.18:4.8","sn12.18:4.9"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"“‘Sā vedanā, so vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi.\n‘Aññā vedanā, añño vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi.\nEte te, timbaruka, ubho ante anupagamma majjhena tathāgato dhammaṁ deseti:\n‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā;\nsaṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ …pe…\nevametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti.\nAvijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho;\nsaṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho …pe…\nevametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’”ti.","en":"“Suppose that the feeling and the one who feels it are one and the same. Then for one who has existed since the beginning, pleasure and pain is made by oneself. I don’t say this.\nSuppose that the feeling is one thing and the one who feels it is another. Then for one stricken by feeling, pleasure and pain is made by another. I don’t say this.\nAvoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way:\n‘Ignorance is a requirement for choices.\nChoices are a requirement for consciousness. …\nThat is how this entire mass of suffering originates.\nWhen ignorance fades away and ceases with no residue left behind, choices cease.\nWhen choices cease, consciousness ceases. …\nThat is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’”"}},{"id":"sn12.18:5","sourceIds":["sn12.18:5.1","sn12.18:5.2","sn12.18:5.3","sn12.18:5.4","sn12.18:5.5"],"kind":"text","text":{"pi":"Evaṁ vutte, timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:\n“abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe…\nesāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca.\nUpāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.\nAṭṭhamaṁ.","en":"When he said this, the wanderer Timbaruka said to the Buddha,\n“Excellent, worthy Gotama! Excellent! …\nI go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha.\nFrom this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”"}}]}],"sourceRevision":"afdafa92450cfe7573b280da50382888323666d2","sourceUrl":"https://suttacentral.net/sn12.18/en/sujato","licence":"CC0 1.0","licenceUrl":"https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/","editionNote":"Full supplied source file; inherited abbreviations are preserved. Not a reconstructed expansion of every repetition. No Malay or Mandarin translation is implied."}